Digest 2001-08

From: 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Bicycle Fit Adjustments


Hi Rita,

Wish I could help you, but when I get a road bike again, I will have quite a 
few questions for the Roadies as well, and I will be taking note of the 
answers you get to your questions. I do work on mountain bikes though and I 
was wondering if you tried adjusting the Stem height? That is since you 
mentioned the height of the handlebars wanting to be higher than the seat. 
It may be that the Stem is positioned to high on the Fork's Steering Tube and 
repositioning the Stem closer to the bike's frame or Head Tube area may do 
the trick. It could be the a number of other things perhaps the Rise/Angle of 
the Stem being too high and if you have an (Ahead type threadless 
fork/headset/steering system) you might be able to reverse your Stem's rise 
or angle by simply flipping it over and going to a negative rise or angle 
which would lower the height of your handlebars. Then again, it could be your 
handlebar is too wide across or in the drop area. Has it been measured & 
fitted to your shoulders? I do remember having that pain in my shoulders with 
the drop handlebar set-up on my Road bike. For me, it just turned out to be a 
simple case of relaxing my shoulders and loosening my "death grip" on the 
handlebars when descending fast. Just by widening and loosing my grip and 
relaxing my shoulders did the trick for me. It's a recurring bad habit of 
mine that I brought with me to mountain biking as well. It's a hard habit to 
break, believe it.  Whether descending or ascending that "death grip" can 
cause a lot of discomfort. Hope you found the answer.  
Sammy

#######

From: Colleen Fishback
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Bicycle Fit Adjustments


Rita,

Most likely you are reaching too far.  Your elbows should be bent and women 
need to ride more upright than men.  You can put on a shorter stem and/or 
adjust the height.  Also, check the width of the handlebars.  They possibly 
could be too wide for your shoulder width.

Bike fit is a n ver ending series of adjustments.  Pain is the message that 
something needs attention!

Happy trails,
Colleen


#######

From: Donald Bechard
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Bicycle Fit Adjustments


After my experience with the professional bike fitter, he indicated that
upper back pain comes from a top tube that is too long for your reach.  A
new stem that angles differently for your reach is probably what you need.
And, or a new 2" ride handle bar.


Sheril

#######

From: Rita Liotta
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 4:48 AM
To: Women's Cycling Discussion
Subject: [WCDL] Bicycle Fit Adjustments


Hi,

I am trying to adjust my new bike. I know the frame is the correct size. I
have the pedaling part of the adjustment down pretty well, good power, etc,
right seat height and fore-aft saddle position. This is a road bike. The
problem is with the handlebars and it's pretty specific. I get pain in my
upper back between my shoulder blades after riding for about a half hour.
I'm not sure what I should do to correct this and I'm afraid of screwing up
my nicely adjusted seat/pedaling position. It seems like the handlebars want
to be higher than the saddle. Does that sound right? Any insights or
suggestions?

TIA

Rita Liotta



#######


From: Julie Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 9:16 AM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: RE: [WCDL] New to the sport. . .

I saw Sammy's response, but thought I'd add my own two cents, which are
pretty close to Sammy's....

I have a lot of shoulder and back trouble and have found (and read) that
narrow bars work the best (also it helps a lot when I remember to keep my
abs tight, cause that takes a lot of the pressure off my back).  I just
recently purchased Easton straight carbon bars.  Width is 23".  They seem to
be helping a lot.  Also, I ride with a Terry butterfly ti saddle with
Titanium rails.  Little pricey, but I absolutely love the saddle.  It's also
pretty light about 260g.  The rest of my bike has shimano XT components,
except the cranks which are tru vativ.  I always consider how much something
weighs when I look into adding it to my bike.  The lighter the better.
also, I ask everyone I know their opinion!

There's lots of great stuff out there...just depends on what you want to
spend.  Probably best to decide what your budget is and go from there.

Good luck!


#######


From: SammysJazz
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 9:10 PM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Is Mountain Biking Supposed to be this Hard?


Thanks for the geography lesson, Kim. I wouldn't have guessed by the name
alone.
I do think in time you will see that your road biking does pay off and visa
versa when alternating between the two.

Enjoy
Sammy


#######

From: KDogmama
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 7:45 PM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Is Mountain Biking Supposed to be this Hard?


"Fantasy Island" is a piece of desert that is not run by anybody.  I'm not
sure who owns the land.  There is no admittance fee, just get to the desert
&
ride.  It is a very narrow singletrack, not organized by anybody.  Its
popularity is word of mouth.

I've been riding for a few weeks only.  I thought that my years of road
riding would pay off - but mtbing is very very different.  I'm going to
stick
with the "bunny hills" until I get my skills up!

Kim



#######


From: SammysJazz
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 6:28 PM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Is Mountain Biking Supposed to be this Hard?


Hi Kim,

Where is this Fantasy Island? It sounds more like a nightmare, LOL. Did you
pay for this? (What I mean is in cash not in pain & suffering.) No
instructional seminar? I bet they made you sign a waiver. In case there was
an accident, they would not be liable. No matter how good you are, if you do
not know the trail chances are you will not do well your first time out. It
is the reason why even the Pros, ride and walk the trail for weeks and days
before a race.

I am sorry your introduction to the sport wasn't more pleasurable. It
doesn't
sound like beginners ride at all. It sounds more like a poorly organized
ride. When you are being introduced to something new, we all like to think
that someone would go a little out of their way to inspire self-confidence
in
the new arrivals, not scare you away. If it makes you feel any better, I am
not new to the Sport, and climbing has been more of a strong point for me
rather then descending. I don't start my rides with climbing, especially on
a
trail I do not know.
I take it slow, saving my energy for what lies ahead while checking out the
landscape. I feel no shame in getting off my bike and walking it. Knowing
that I will have better luck the next time when I know the trail better. It
takes a lot of momentum and speed to get up a dirt hill littered with loose
rocks, sand or roots never mind small boulders or logs. Hell, I even try my
"damdess" not to be clipped in the pedals when I do most inclines on a
mountain bike. Whether I am familiar with hill or not, I will always take
the
path of least resistance. I don't ride over rocks/boulders that are over a
foot long up an incline. I avoid them at all cost. When descending or on
more
level ground, dealing with obstacles on the trail is a skill you can learn
over time. I could be wrong about this, but it almost sounds like your "Ride
Guide" made a mistake. Perhaps you were all going the wrong way on the
trail.
If you are laughing, good, but it can happen. It has happened to me on a few
occasions and I didn't realize it until much later when I knew the trails.
Of
course, the lovely couple that led my beginners, hell ride were long gone by
then. Bottom line: If it isn't fun for you; then it isn't worth it. Don't
let
this scare you. Better rides & times lie ahead.

Sammy


#######

From: SammysJazz
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 5:44 AM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] New to the sport. . .


Hi Janeva,

A Klein your starting with? You lucky Girl! I wish my partner was a Bike
Geek. I would have a list a mile long for him. But, I am the Mountain Bike
Builder in this family. I don't build wheels though. Not yet, I don't own a
good truing stand.
Well, about seats for Women. I have had a collection of them. Serfas,
Bontrager, Avocet, WTB and a few more, but the one I love the most is my
Selle Italia LDY (for lady) Trans AM, with the magnesium rails. Perfection
at
last! Not to soft and cushy, and not so hard. it weighs in at 280-285 grams.
It's fairly light weight. The magnesium rails combined with a perfect amount
of padding in the nose and flank area absorbs shock and gives you a
comfortable ride even long distance on any Bike Road, Mountain or Full
Suspension. You can Order the LADY Trans Am through your local Shop or get
it
right away and a maybe cheaper through mail order. Right now Bike Nashbar,
Bike World & Cambria Bicycle has them on Sale between $55 or $65. It is the
2000 model and the same design as the 2001. Here is a picture of it on my
one
of my Bikes (see attached File). It is all Italian black leather with a bit
of orange embroidered on it.

As for Stems and Handle Bars it is a matter of personal taste & fit and a
preference contingent upon your riding style once you have defined and
develop one that is adapted to the type of terrain you ride. I have a riser
bar set up for both my hard tail and full suspension bike. For all cross
country riding, I would recommend a Rise at 1-1.5 inches but no more than
that. I cut/saw all my handlebars down to 25.75 inches in width. I am just
an
average size woman 5 ft 6 "born with broad shoulders like a Green Bay Packer
and long Monkey arms. They are back in style though, thankfully. If you are
not as broad in the shoulders 22'-24 "in a handlebar width should suit you.
Even Carbon bars can be cut down if needed. Flat bars are good to start out
with expecially when doing climbs. There is a lot of choices: Easton C2
Monkey Bars, They are carbon bars they absorb shock the best but at a
staggering price of $110-$120 US dollars. I use the Azonic World Force Bar
on
one of my Bikes. It takes a lot of abuse but never fails. They cost about
$35
-$45. I use a good pair of SERFAS grips to absorb handlebar shock and to
save
the expense of the carbon. The SERFAS Grips are small enough for most women
to get their hands around them and I think they have the best feel to them.
AZONIC, ANSWER, Bontrager, Profile Easton & RaceFace, all make good
reliable,
light weight Aluminium Flat & Riser handlebars in various widths, Rises and
sweeps with a five to 10 year warranty backing their product. The Stem you
select depends on a few factors: a) The length of your arms and reach b) Top
Tube length of your bike, and c) the head Tube Length and angle
d) the handlebar you will be using (i.e. a Bar with Rise or Flat Bar).

If you go with a Flat Bar "generally speaking" your Stem can be slightly
longer in length and a higher in the degree of "Rise." I recommend that you
stick to a rise between 5 and 10 degrees and a length below 110 mm, but
again
it is a matter of what fits you and your preference.  Any more than that you
will pay dearly for on the climbs. If you go with a Riser Handle bar the
Stem
should have less of a rise or no rise at all and generally is a little
shorter. Go with the Less expensive, but good Stems while you are
experimenting with comfort zones and riding style.
Here are some good brand name Stems that pass my Test for reliability,
comfort and sizing options.  They are reasonably priced Stems with a variety
of choices in lengths and rise. RaceFace came out with a new inexpensive
line
designed for OEM. called the "Prodigy." They come in Powder Coat White,
Silver and a Flat Black AZONIC makes a nice Stem, and so does Salsa, the
Moto
Ace line. These Stems, cost around $30 or $35. Cambria, Bike World and
Jensen, USA has them. Once you become a more seasoned Rider then we can talk
about other Stems& handlebars combinations: KORE ELITE, RaceFace System,
Thompson, etc. It really isn't necessary. There is so many good things out
there. Stay clear of Controll Tech Stems, Axiom & Ringle. I have broken more
than a few of them. Hope this helps.

Good Luck.
Sammy



#######

From: KDogmama
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 5:03 AM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: [WCDL] Is Mountain Biking Supposed to be this Hard?



Yesterday I experienced the ride from h*ll.  I took my mtb to "Fantasy
Island" - a place supposedly for beginning/intermediate riders.

It was 11 miles long - a good 5 miles were nothing but hills - big (30+ feet
in length) steep (you could barely walk up or down them) and rocky (some had
boulders sticking out a good 12 inches).  Is this a beginning track?

Thanks for any experience out there!

Kim


#######

From: rachel
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 12:41 AM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: [WCDL] New to the sport. . .


Hello Everyone!

I am new to the mountain biking sport, and I have a few questions, that I
would like to pose.
My husband is a bike geek, and we really enjoy riding together. . . (I'm
riding his old Schwinn Predator, single speed), so he is building a bike
for me.  Wow!  What devotion, huh?  Here's the problem, since I am not
very skilled, or experienced on what a bike should feel like, I don't
know what specific parts I want, or need.  We have a small Kline frame,
that he is using for the base. . .but where do we go from here?

We took a 26 mile ride last week, (me on the Schwinn) and I am still
recovering from the jaunt!  My arms and back felt traumatized, but my
legs were just fine.  It really had me wondering about saddles and handle
bars. . . so I joined your list.  I was able to glean a bit of
information from your previous notes, (Marilyn wrote about the height of
the seat post, on May 4th, Thanks!), and the links to other sites were
great too!

Does anyone have any suggestions on brands and/or measurements for handle
bars (weather to rise or stay flat), stem length/rise?  I went to the
cycling shop to purchase a saddle, and there were too many choices. . . I
felt strange looking a seats that were three times as big, and four times
as heavy as the boy's!!!

Neither one of us have female friends who ride, mountain, touring or
otherwise.  I am really shocked that I took to this so quickly, but
coming from a long line of motorcyclist, this makes sense to me.  I would
appreciate any feed back.

Thanks-
Janeva

#######


From: Donald Bechard 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 3:07 PM
To:  womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Bike Size


My first bike was wrongly sized for me, and I also hated the ride, the pain
of the knees, and the inability to progress as a rider.  At long last, I
found a professional bike fitter.  He took all kinds of measurements, and we
talked for about 3 hours, and now I have the best fitting bike in all the
world.  There are bike fitters (not the guys at the bike shops) who know the
ins and outs of how a bike needs to fit a woman, both road bikes and
mountain bikes and all bikes in between.  Please find one in your area.
This will save you a costly mistake, such as Suzanne and I experienced.

Sheril


#######

From: Suzanne Pharr 
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:58 PM
To: 
womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] Bike Size


Rita,

It's much easier to size a 17 inch frame up with a longer seatpost than it
is to size down a 19 inch frame.  I'm 5'2" with a 29" inseam and ride a 19"
Diamondback Interval.  I hate my bike!!  I can't wait until I have enough
money to buy a new one.  To offset the long top tube, the bike shop put on a
short handlebar stem.  Unfortunately, the stem is so short it makes the bike
much harder to handle.  I've been researching frame geometry in preparation
for the day I can finally afford a new bike.  Overall it seems like European
bikes have shorter top tubes than American made bikes.  There are some
American bikes that aren't as bad, but be careful what you get.  Hold out
for what feels right to you, and don't let the bike shop talk you into
anything else.  You don't want to end up regretting it like I have.
Needless to say, I no longer use that bike shop, but I also don't ride
nearly as much as I would if I had a better fitting bike.

Good luck,

Suzanne Pharr


#######

From: Julie Wagner 
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:36 AM
To: '"Rita Liotta" @INTERNET';
womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: RE: [WCDL] Bike Size





Hi Rita...I'm 5'3" and I have a 17 in.  I think the 19 would be too big for
you!  Good luck.



#######

From: rita
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:09 AM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: [WCDL] Bike Size


Hi,

I am planning on buying a Raleigh R300 road bike that is nicely fitted up
for touring. I am 5 foot 1 inch tall and have a 29" inseam. I am very small
boned, short arms, waist, legs. I ordered the 17 inch model but am now
having second thoughts about the size -- maybe I should have ordered the 19
inch? I was thinking that the 17 inch frame would be overall more suited to
my small dimensions, especially as regards top tube length. Is anybody
riding this bike? Any thoughts on whether I should get the 17 or the 19 inch
frame? I am a recreational rider. I ride about  45-50 miles per week, mostly
for the cardiovascular benefits and pure exhilaration of cruising along a
beautiful country road.

Rita


#######


From: Susan Otcenas 
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 10:13 PM
To: Myfrogskin@aol.com
Cc: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: [WCDL] Re: Plus size clothing


VERY SORRY for the delayed reply.  I've been on Cycle Montana and cycling in
Glacier National Park and around Mt. Rainier.  Beautiful country!

I'm just now catching up on posts to this list.  Anyway, to answer your
question...

Other than Terry, the only company doing a decent job of women's plus size
clothing that is cycling specific is Mt. Borah. The line is small. They have
an mtb style short in black and ink, up to size 4x, a very nice cycle liner,
also up to 4x, and a jersey that at the moment only comes in yellow and
royal blue (both with black side panel inserts), also to 4x.  The sizing is
generous. Mt. Borah does not have a women's line for the fall/winter season
(in all fairness to them, they don't have a large fall men's line either).
However, if memory serves me correctly, I believe their dealer literature
says that they will make any short sleeve item that they currently carry
into a long sleeve item as a custom order.

See:

http://www.teamestrogen.com/categories.asp?catID=53

Susan


#######

From: Carol Bronson 
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:07 PM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: [WCDL] Tour companies


We are planning to go to the Tour de France next year and would like to do
it with a bicycling tour group.  Has anyone heard of any good touring
companies?  We were thinking about Velotours but just heard bad things about
their support.  I would like to hear if anyone has gone and what their
experience was.
Thanks,
Carol


#######


From: SammysJazz
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:26 AM
To: womens-cycling@teamestrogen.com
Subject: Re: [WCDL] mtb camps


Hi Dulcy,

Hope you will add this one to the list. It's a Dirt Camp that is for women
and they offer Co-ed camps as well. It is in one of the most beautiful areas
in North America. Along with Mohab, UT this is the place that beckons
serious
riders to make a pilgrimage.....BC. Canada. The exchange rate on the
American
$dollar in Canada is another reason to check out these great biking clinics
&
vacations your neighbours to the North have to offer. Check out this place
and their web site. The mountain views alone look awesome. I don't know if
they offer anything for the Roadies, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
http://www.earthtrekadventures.com

This Dirt Camp looks excellent, so I thought I would add it to your list. I
hope I don't get in to trouble for this, but check out the employee BIOS at
this web site and see if you recognize any names from this forum? Either she
has been modest, or maybe I'm just spacing out to much (probably the
latter).
It would be nice to go to a Dirt Camp that has a real persons name
associated
with it, someone we are getting more familiar with in this forum. It adds a
sense of comfort to it.
I wish I could go out there tomorrow, I need to get away and out biking, but
I have pressing obligations here for the next 2 months. You can rent a Bike
(Hard Tail w/front suspension) or take your own bike. If you belong to IMBA
(International Mountain Bike Association) there are certain Airlines that
will Fly your Bike for free expecially if your coming from the USA. Ask IMBA
or visit their web site)

If your flying from Florida or from the East Coast its about the same price
to fly to Western, Canada as it is to California, AZ, WA or UT, CO, etc.
Sometimes it is even cheaper. That has been my experience, anyway. I have
been flying back and forth from Miami-Canada, NJ, Canada, NY, PA & Mass. to
Canada for the past 4 years.
If your a picky, spoiled, Brat (like me) who absolutely insist on taking her
own Bike; you can Rent or Buy a Hard Shell Case to transport your bike. Ask
your local shop for rental prices; or if you plan to travel a lot and take
your ride, it would be better to just buy the case from one of the mail
order
places that have them for a nominal fee. If you live in Canada forget about
buying a case renting is cheaper.

I would recommend the TRICO Iron Case. Its a good size for even a large FS
bike and there is room for your Camel Back, Pedals and some extra gear. I
have had good luck with this case and it meets the Airline's measurement &
weight requirements; most importantly its relatively bomb proof when the
Baboons at the Airport start throwing your precious Bike around as they all
do with mine. Oh, just one tip, when you fly with your bike; never pack your
helmet in your bike case when flying, it will explode. If you cannot get a
freebie transport through IMBA's partner airlines the fee is around $65-75
US
Dollars each way depending on the Airline.  Air Canada is $62 CDN which
comes
out to around $45 American. You barley have to disassemble the bike in that
case, you remove the front & rear wheels and the handlebars (if they are a
MTB riser bar) and the pedals. Its a snap. Hope this is useful.

Sammy